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Tag Archives | Geraldine Hughes

Ray Chandler’s Subpoena in 2004

The 1994 settlement between Michael Jackson and the Chandler family forbade the signing parties from speaking to the media and/or publicly about the allegations. However, book publisher, Judith Regan disclosed to SiriusXM radio the fact that Evan’s brother, Raymond Chandler was shopping a book to her shortly after the settlement was signed:

“I received a call from Jordan’s uncle. He wanted to do a book in which he would describe in detail the allegation of molestation against Michael Jackson. So I asked him how he proposed to do this given the fact that the Chandlers had actually signed a confidentiality agreement and taken $20mln. And he said that Jordan’s father had given him all the information he needed for the book and he believed he was outside the bounds of the Confidentiality agreement because he would be the author. At the time I had the impression that the Chandlers were brazen opportunists and I found the entire proposal by the uncle to be distasteful. They enter a Confidentiality agreement and before the ink is even dry they are shopping a deal that violates this agreement?”[1]

Evan's brother, Raymond Chandler

Evan’s brother, Raymond Chandler

That Ray Chandler was indeed shopping a book “within days” after the settlement was signed, is confirmed by none other than Ray Chandler himself in a Motion he filed with the Santa Barbara Court on October 25, 2004. The Motion was filed in response to a subpoena filed by Jackson’s defense which will be discussed in detail below. In it, Ray Chandler argued that his intent had always been to disseminate the information he gathered from his brother and nephew, which made him an Investigative Journalist and therefore afforded him the protection of the Shield Law, which would prevent him from being compelled to present his alleged evidence in court. “The California Shield Law provides legal protection for journalists seeking to maintain the confidentiality of an unnamed source or unpublished information obtained during newsgathering.”[2]

In support of his claim that he should be protected by the Shield Law Ray Chandler disclosed in that Motion [3; page 8]:

“Within days after Jordan Chandler’s civil lawsuit against Michael Jackson was settled in January, 1994, Raymond Chandler traveled to New York City to seek a publisher for the purpose of putting the information he had gathered in the form of a non-fiction book for dissemination to the public. Such intent on the part of Raymond Chandler is evidenced by an article that appeared in the New York Post revealing his contact with a publisher one day after it occurred.” [3]

In the attached article to the Motion the publisher named is indeed Judith Regan [3; page 41].

Ray Chandler, in making his claim that he should be protected by the Shield Law states in the Motion that he traveled to Los Angeles “within two days after the Michael Jackson child molestation scandal became public in August of 1993″ [3; page 8] and from late August through December of 1993 lived in the Los Angeles home of Evan and Jordan Chandler with the intent of gathering information about the molestation allegations and then publicly disseminating that information [3; page 13].

Ray Chandler’s Motion makes it clear that from the very beginning of the child molestation scandal the Chandlers planned to publish a book about it. Please take note of this fact when you consider the Chandlers’ arguments as to why they did not want to testify against Jackson in a criminal court. They claimed they wanted to move on with their lives and not subject Jordan to media spotlight and the scrutiny that would have been unavoidable in a high profile case. They also claimed they received several death threats from Michael Jackson fans and since Los Angeles District Attorney, Gil Garcetti refused to put the family into the Witness Protection Program, they were afraid for their lives.

However, it seems the Chandlers were alright with being in the media spotlight to promote their book and discuss the allegations contained in that book (as opposed to moving on with their lives). They even were apparently willing to accept the risk of potentially being threatened by Michael Jackson fans further because of that book and the allegations contained therein, although it was unacceptable to testify in a criminal court and subject themselves to cross-examination about these very allegations.

Ray Chandler eventually published his book entitled All That Glitters in September of 2004 at the height of the media frenzy caused by the Arvizo allegations lodged against Jackson. The book quotes Evan excessively and relies heavily on his account of the events which allegedly occurred in 1993. Ray Chandler also made his rounds in the media in 2003-2005, giving superficial interviews where no hardball questions were asked and appearing in biased documentaries. Additionally, he set-up what is now a defunct website specifically about the Chandlers’ allegations against Jackson.

The website claimed to have published documents which would “prove” Jackson’s guilt but in reality, the documents only re-stated the Chandlers’ and their legal representatives’ allegations, allegations which were never cross-examined or proven.

Additionally, according to Geraldine Hughes, who was employed as a legal secretary for Barry Rothman, the Chandlers’ attorney during the 1993 allegations, some of the documents on Ray Chandler’s website even appeared to be forgeries. Case in point, correspondence between Rothman and other parties appearing on the website bear the signature of the parties and initials of the secretary who typed them. However, Geraldine Hughes stated to the MJEOL website that although they bear her initials as the typist, she never typed some of those documents. Additionally, she stated some signatures bore little resemblance to Rothman’s and one document was posted unsigned. Hughes told to MJEOL:

“When I review the documents that he [Ray Chandler] has on his website, I am convinced that several of the documents, even though they bear my initials as the typist, I DID NOT TYPE THAT PARTICULAR DOCUMENT. Several of these documents have been manufactured and are not even bearing the correct signature of my attorney Barry Rothman.” [4]

Here are the signatures as they appeared on the documents published on Ray Chandler’s website:


In addition to Ray Chandler being very active in the media before and during Jackson’s 2005 trial, he also appeared in several interviews in and around 1998 in connection with a lawsuit his brother, Evan brought against Jackson regarding the 1995 Diane Sawyer interview [for details see this article].

It should be noted that the only Chandler ever to testify in a court and be subjected to cross-examination regarding their allegations against Michael Jackson was Jordan’s mother, June Chandler. On April 11, 2005 June Chandler testified as a prosecution witness in regards to the time her son spent with Jackson in 1993. June Chandler was asked about the details of the legal proceedings afterwards but during the trial she never testified that she witnessed molestation or any inappropriate touching. She also told the court that she had not seen Jordan for 11 years. (Jordan legally emancipated himself from both of his parents in 1995.)

The rest of the Chandler family, including Jordan himself, never testified against Jackson in a court of law  and were never cross-examined . As we discuss in detail in our article about the settlement, only a civil case can be settled out of court and no settlement can prohibit any party from testifying in a criminal court. In actuality, in 1994 the criminal investigation went on even after the settlement and the prosecution tried hard to convince the Chandlers to testify in a criminal court and though they could have they were unwilling. In actuality, Santa Barbara Disttrict Attorney, Thomas Sneddon even extended the statue of limitations in the Chandler case, so Jordan Chandler could have decided to testify against Jackson in a criminal court basically at any time he had wanted, but he was unwilling. [5]

During the 2005 People vs. Jackson trial, the prosecution once again attempted to get Jordan Chandler to testify on the stand in support of their case but Jordan, just as his uncle, Ray Chandler, once again declined. Instead of presenting evidence and testifying for the prosecution against Jackson in court, Ray Chandler chose to write a book, give interviews to the media and post questionable documents on his website; all this, despite being given the opportunity to testify against Jackson by none other than Jackson’s defense!

Court documents from 2004 reveal that on September 19, 2004, just a week after Ray Chandler released his book to the public, he was served with a Subpoena Duces Tecum (a request for the production of evidence) and a Trial Subpoena (a demand for personal appearance at trial and the production of documents) by Jackson’s defense. Since Ray Chandler alleged in his book, in television interviews and on his website that he had evidence of Jackson’s guilt, the entertainer’s defense wanted him to appear before the court, produce that evidence and subject himself to cross-examination. However, Ray Chandler, rather than take this opportunity to help finally convict a person he alleged had molested his nephew, instead fought tooth and nail against the subpoena.

An objection was filed with the Santa Barbara Court by Ray Chandler’s lawyers, Herb Fox and Peter Bezek, on October 25, 2004:


The document objects to the Subpoena Duces Tecum filed by Jackson’s defense on September 19, 2004. The subpoena requested that Ray Chandler produce “all documents constituting, evidencing, concerning, discussing or mentioning” the alleged relationship between Michael Jackson and Jordan Chandler; all documents of communication between Ray Chandler and any other person discussing Michael Jackson; all documents of communication between Ray Chandler and enforcement agency, governmental entity, police personnel, Sheriff’s personnel, Child Protective Services where Michael Jackson or Jordan Chandler has been mentioned; all documents of communication between Ray Chandler and Jordan Chandler, and between Ray Chandler and Evan Chandler concerning the allegations against Michael Jackson; all documents and interview recordings concerning or relating to Ray Chandler’s book, All That Glitters; and all documents concerning the printing, distribution, promotion or sale of the book. Additionally there were two requests made about Ray Chandler’s assumed connection to a public relations agency, Tellem Worldwide, which also had the Santa Barbara District Attorney’s office among their clients. [6]

Ray Chandler objected to all of these requests based on the following arguments: the request is either “overboard and burdensome”, or the “documents are public documents readily available to the Defendant”, or “to the extent that any of these documents are unpublished they are protected from compelled production by the journalists’ Shield Law”, or producing the documents “will not reasonably lead to the discovery of admissible evidence” or are “irrelevant to the issues in this case” or the request is “an invasion of privacy”. [6]

In his Motion Ray Chandler admitted that the majority of his documents are magazine articles and court pleadings. To the point where Ray Chandler was requested to provide all documents of communication between him and any enforcement agency, governmental entity, police personnel, Sheriff’s personnel, Child Protective Services where Michael Jackson or Jordan Chandler has been mentioned, the Motion answered: “Raymond Chandler objects to producing these documents on the ground that they are not relevant to the subject matter at hand in that none of these documents contain any information regarding any claims of child molestation or defenses to such claims.” [6]

For details please see the above referenced document which is seven pages long and for even more details of how Ray Chandler objected to the subpoena see the 70 paged Motion drafted by his lawyers, which was likewise filed on October 25, 2004 with the Santa Barbara Court: http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/102504nommot3rdpty.pdf

In this longer document, Ray Chandler’s lawyers also argue that the the Court has not yet ruled on the admissibility of the 1993 allegations, therefore “it is not yet known” if Chandler’s book, tapes and the documents upon which the book is based are relevant to the instant criminal prosecution. [3]

Although the Court had indeed not yet ruled on the admissibility of the 1993 allegations at the time, the prosecutors were working in the direction of trying to get those allegations introduced, including contacting Jordan Chandler in September of 2004. Jordan not only told them he was not interested in testifying against Jackson, according to Jackson’s FBI files released after the singer’s death in 2009, he also advised the prosecutors that “he would legally fight any attempt” to make him testify against Jackson [7]. Additionally, Jackson’s attorney, Thomas Mesereau stated in an interview that had Jordan Chandler come in to testify in 2005, he had witnesses prepared to testify that Jordan privately admitted to them that Jackson never molested or touched him inappropriately [8].

We do not know whether Ray Chandler knew about this or not but had the Chandlers wanted the 1993 allegations introduced in 2005 and discussed in court in detail, they could have had them introduced simply by agreeing to testify. Of course, at this time they would have also been subject to cross-examination for the first time.

In actuality, even with Jordan’s and Ray’s refusal to testify, the 1993 allegations eventually were introduced to court in 2005 through the so called “prior bad acts” provision. However, Ray Chandler did not testify and did not subject himself, his claims or his alleged evidence to cross-examination even then.

In the 70 paged long Motion, Ray Chandler’s lawyers also request, should the Court decline to grant their Motion to quash the Subpoena Duces Tecum, that the Court review the documents (which according to them “include several thousand pages of newspaper and magazine clippings, copies of deposition transcripts and court pleadings, and approximately six to eight hours of tape recordings” [3]) in camera “to determine which documents, if any, should be provided to the Defendant for review and copying” [3]. In camera literally means “in chambers” and it “refers to a hearing or inspection of documents that takes places in private, often in a Judge’s chambers” [9]. It allows the judge to review the documents in private, with the exclusion of spectators and jurors, before determining its admissibility in open court.

In answer to Ray Chandler’s objection to the subpoena, in a Motion filed on November 5, 2004, Jackson’s defense argued that Ray Chandler was not a journalist since he was not engaged “in any news gathering activities as a reporter, editor, publisher or person connected with or employed upon a newspaper, magazine, or other periodical publication”. Therefore, it was argued, “he is not entitled to protection under the Shield law”, and that he is a witness to the 1993-94 events who cannot withhold unpublished information [10]. For details see the document here: http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/110504mjoppmotchandsub.pdf

On November 8, 2004 Ray Chandler’s lawyers filed an Answer in which Ray Chandler stated he was the owner of Windsong Press, the company which published his book, All That Glitters and therefore again, protected by the Shield Law. He also stated he was not an eyewitness to the alleged crimes in 1993 [11]. For details see the document here: http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/1108043rdptyrcrepdftopp.pdf

Eventually the Judge decided that Chandler was indeed protected by the Shield law and so he did not have to present his documents in court and did not have to testify.

From our point of view whether Ray Chandler technically was really a journalist or not and entitled to be protected by the Shield law is a side issue. The more important point is the fact that Ray Chandler was not at all willing to testify against Jackson, to present his alleged evidence against him in a court of law or do anything at all to help convict the alleged molester of his nephew. In actuality, he vehemently fought against repeating his allegations in a court of law and having this alleged evidence subjected to cross-examination. Instead he chose to make those allegations in a book, on his website and in media interviews he gave. The above documents also demonstrate that, ironically, it was Jackson’s defense who fought to bring Ray Chandler and his alleged evidence to court.


[1] Judith Regan on Michael Jackson Molestation Allegations on SIRIUS XM

[2] Protecting Unpublished Information and Confidential Sources (thefirstamendment.org)

[3] Notice of motion and motion of third party Raymond Chandler to quash subpoenas and/or in camera review; authorities; declaration of Raymond Chandler (October 25, 2004)

[4] Hughes Responds to Ray Chandler – MJEOL Bullet #197

[5] Broadcast News (BN) February 15, 2001
“Sneddon tells the New York Daily News the case against Jackson was never closed and it can be re-opened at any time. He says the statute of limitations hasn’t run out because Jackson was living out of the country for so much time.”

[6] Verified objections by non party Raymond Chandler to Defendant’s Subpoena Duces Tecum (October 25, 2004)

[7] Jackson’s FBI files as released in 2009
http://vault.fbi.gov/Michael%20Jackson/Michael%20Jackson%20305%20File%20Part%201%20of%201/view (page 4)

[8] Michael Jacskon was Innocent – Tom Mesereau talks about how Jordan Chandler Lies

[9] In camera (The Lectric Law Library)

[10] Mr.Jackson’s opposition to motion to quash Chandler subpoena and declaration of counsel (November 5, 2004)

[11] Third party, Raymond Chandler’s reply to defendant’s opposition to motion to quash (November 8, 2004)

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The Chandler Allegations

According to the Chandlers’ story, Jordan Chandler “confessed” about the alleged sexual abuse by Michael Jackson, on July 16, 1993 after he was sedated for a minor dental procedure in his father Evan Chandler’s dental office. The circumstances of that alleged “confession” are discussed in this article.

There was more than a month between the date of Jordan’s alleged “confession” to his father (July 16) and the day he was taken to a psychiatrist, Dr. Mathis Abrams (August 17), where he first made formal allegations against Michael Jackson, which then triggered the official investigation against the entertainer.

According to the book All That Glitters, written by Jordan’s uncle, Ray Chandler, between July 16 and August 10 Jordan’s alleged “confession” was never mentioned to anyone by either Jordan or his father, not even to Jordan’s mother, June Chandler even though Evan is described as desperate to convince her that their son had been molested. All Evan relied upon was the so called Abrams letter, about which can be read in this article.

Evan Chandler used that letter to demand money from Michael Jackson between July 16 and August 17. The Chandlers vehemently protested the use of the term “extortion”, they preferred the word “negotiations” instead. For details of Evan Chandler’s monetary demands and the events between July 16 and August 17, see this article.

On August 16, the Court ordered Evan Chandler to return Jordan to his mother the next day. In response of that, and frustrated by Jackson’s refusal to pay him off, Evan took Jordan to Dr. Abrams on August 17 where the boy alleged that he had been sexually molested by Michael Jackson. Therapists are required by law to report all child abuse allegations to authorities. Taking Jordan to a therapist and having the therapist report the allegations instead of Evan himself reporting them was a way to report the alleged child abuse through a third party without liability passing to the parent.

Although Dr. Abrams dutifully reported the case, ten years later, on December 12, 2003 he told CBS News that he did not spend enough time with Jordan Chandler to conclude whether the boy was telling the truth or not:

“I think that this [children changing their stories] is a possibility in both cases, that there could be coaching, but, again, I wasn’t given the opportunity in the initial one to even try to find out.” [1]

Before Jordan made his formal allegations to Dr. Abrams, he lived with his father for more than a month. Geraldine Hughes, the legal secretary of Evan’s attorney, Barry Rothman claimed in an interview she gave to the Reflections On The Dance website that the boy spent several hours in Rothman’s office alone with the attorney behind closed doors:

“I really believe that the whole thing was plotted and planned and the words were given to him [Jordan Chandler] to say because I actually witnessed the 13 year old in my attorney’s office without any supervision of his parents and he was kind of snuck in there, it was like no one in the office knew he was in there. He was behind closed doors with my attorney for several hours, and I kind of believe that is where he was being told what to say.  I can’t say that I actually witnessed him being told, but I did witness that there was a meeting between my attorney and the 13 year old accuser for several hours.  Actually it was a meeting that nobody in the office was supposed to know even existed and the only reason that I found out (was because) I was on my way out of the office and we were under threats of death about just walking in his office without even knocking or without announcing, and I was just rushing so I opened up the door and when I opened up the door I saw the boy in his office and I was kind of shocked.  We didn’t even know he was in there and he had a startled look on his face and the attorney blasted me for coming in there unannounced.” [2]

What Jordan specifically told Dr. Abrams on August 17 was not disclosed to the public. However, there are two documents which we can use to determine what was alleged: a declaration by Jordan Chandler dated December 28, 1993 [3] and an interview that psychiatrist, Dr. Richard Gardner conducted with Jordan on October 6, 1993 [4].  Both were leaked to the public in February, 2003, only a couple of days after Martin Bashir’s manipulatively cut and narrated documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, was aired.

Who leaked them to the media is not known. However Jordan’s uncle, Ray Chandler later presented audio clips from the Richard Gardner interview in a second slanderous documentary Bashir made of Jackson, entitled Michael Jackson’s Secret World, which aired in February 2005, just when Jackson’s trial for the Arvizo case was about to begin. Ray Chandler also quotes parts of the interview in his book.

From these two documents we learn that Jordan Chandler alleged that he and Jackson started to sleep in the same bed in late March, 1993 when he, together with his mother and sister, went on a trip to Las Vegas where they stayed at the Mirage Hotel. According to Jordan Chandler, one night while Jordan and Jackson watched the movie The Exorcist, Jackson, because Jordan was scared, offered to let Jordan sleep in his room. There was no claim of physical contact occurring between Jordan and Jackson on that trip.

Jordan claimed that from then on, whenever he and Jackson were together, they slept in the same bed. In the Gardner interview Jordan claimed that physical contact started in early May with Jackson simply hugging him. But he contradicted himself later in the interview when he said that on a trip to Florida, which took place in April, Jackson grabbed his butt and put his tongue in his ear.

Jordan claimed that the physical contact between them “increased gradually” as time went by. First he claimed it was just a hug, then a brief kiss on the cheek, then he claimed there was kissing on the lips, first briefly and then for longer periods of time. Then, Jordan claimed, Jackson put his tongue in his mouth. Jordan claimed he told Jackson he did not like that and in response Jackson started to cry and said “there was nothing wrong with it” [3] and that “just because most people believe something is wrong, doesn’t make it so” [3]. Jordan claimed that Jackson told him that other boys would kiss him with an open mouth and would let him put his tongue in their mouth. Jordan also alleged that Jackson emotionally blackmailed him, by saying that if Jordan wouldn’t let him do these things it meant he didn’t love him as much as another friend who would do.

Jordan claimed that “the next step was when Michael Jackson rubbed up against me in bed. The next step was when we would lie on top of each other with erections” [3]. In the Gardner interview he added: “By the way, he never put his tongue in my mouth again once I told him not to.” [4]

Jordan claimed in the Gardner interview that on a trip to Florida in April, 1993 Jackson kissed him, grabbed his butt and put his tongue in his ear. He also claimed that “he was walking to the bathroom to take a shower, and he looked at me before he closed the door and he said, ‘I wish I didn’t have to do this,’ and he shut the door, implying that he wished he could be so free as to be able to change in front of me.” [4] Jordan also claimed that when he told Jackson that he didn’t like that he put his tongue in his ear and grabbed his butt, Jackson once again started crying and tried to make him feel guilty and said that “Tommy” (a cousin or a young friend of Jackson whose name is concealed in the transcript of the Gardner interview to protect his privacy) would let him do that. “By the way, he never did those either” [4], Jordan added.

In May, 1993 Jordan, his mother, his sister and Jackson went to Monaco. As the story goes, Jordan and Jackson were suffering from colds and stayed in the room all day while the boy’s mother and sister went shopping. Jordan alleged that he and Jackson took a bath together and this was the first time they saw each other naked. He claimed Jackson named certain under-aged friends of his who masturbated in front of him. Then, Jordan claimed, Jackson masturbated in front of him. Jordan alleged that Jackson told him he would do it for him when he was ready. He also claimed that while they were in bed, Jackson put his hand underneath his underpants and masturbated him to a climax.

Jordan alleged that then Jackson masturbated him many times both with his hand and with his mouth until the end of their association. He also claimed that one time Jackson had him suck one of his nipples and twist the other while Jackson masturbated.

Jordan volunteered to psychoanalyze Jackson’s interaction with other children and to give his “expert” opinion about “Tommy”, who at the time appeared in the media publicly defending Jackson against the allegations:

“Who do you think is lying?”


 “Why do you say that?”

“Because in public, when he’s [Jackson] with Tommy, they’re very close together physically and verbally and relationship-wise. And if one were to observe things in public, how they acted to each other, one would come to that conclusion, that it was more then just a friendly relationship.” [4]

The boy claimed that Jackson told him not to tell anyone and what they were doing was a secret. In his interview with Dr. Gardner he claimed that Jackson told him that if anybody found out about it, Jackson would go to jail and Jordan would go to a juvenile hall. When asked if he believed that, Jordan answered, “Well, I didn’t really believe it at the time, and I definitely don’t now. But at the time I didn’t really believe it but I said, okay, whatever, and just went along with it.”[4]

It is not known what Dr. Gardner concluded from the interview because his analysis was not leaked with the interview. (Dr. Gardner died on May 25, 2003.) What we know is that the Chandlers and their civil lawyer, Larry Feldman took the tape to psychologist, Dr. Stanley Katz for evaluation. Dr. Katz was formerly involved in the highly controversial McMartin preschool trial. He was the Director of Training and Professional Education at the Children’s Institute International (CII). Kee McFarlane, who initially interviewed the McMartin children, worked under him. On cross-examination at Jackson’s 2005 trial, Dr. Katz testified that he did the assessments of the McMartin children. [6] The CII’s role in the McMartin case has been widely criticized in professional circles. Their interviewing techniques are considered coercive and manipulative which may lead the children make false allegations about sexual abuse. [7]

Besides his involvement in the McMartin case and the Jordan Chandler case Dr. Katz was also the psychologist who evaluated Jackson’s 2003 accuser, Gavin Arvizo.

Before Jordan went to his father on July 11, he had always denied that Jackson ever molested him or touched him in any sexual way, although Evan had already pressured him for a long time to corroborate his preconceived idea that the boy’s relationship with Jackson was sexual. [For details see our article on Evan Chandler’s “Suspicions”.]

On July 8, the boy’s step father, David Schwartz, recorded three phone conversations that he had with Evan Chandler, in which Evan threatened to destroy Jackson with the help of a carefully prepared plot and with people who were only waiting for his phone call to set everything in motion if the star refused to communicate with him and refused to give him what he wants. [8] Schwartz took the tape to Jackson’s private investigator, Anthony Pellicano on July 9, and on that same day Pellicano interviewed Jordan Chandler. According to Mary A. Fischer’s 1994 article for GQ magazine:

“Without Jackson there, Pellicano “made eye contact” with the boy and asked him, he says, “very pointed questions”: “Has Michael ever touched you? Have you ever seen him naked in bed?” The answer to all the questions was no. The boy repeatedly denied that anything bad had happened.” [10]

In September 1994 on a secretly taped phone conversation with Jim Mitteager, who was a reporter for The Globe tabloid at the time, Pellicano spoke about this event as well (at the time he did not work for Jackson any more):

“PELLICANO:  You have to understand something. I have nine kids.  Michael [Jackson] plays with my baby.  They crawl all over him.  They pull his hair.  They pull his nose.  Sometimes he wears a bandage across his face.  If I let my own kids (unintelligible) do you think there’s a chance?

MITTEAGER:  Well, all things being equal, I would say, no.

PELLICANO:  Not only that.  If you sat this kid [Jordie Chandler] down like I did, as a matter of fact, he couldn’t wait to get up and go play video games.  I said, “you don’t understand how serious this is.  Your dad [Evan Chandler] is going to accuse Michael of sexual molestation.  He going to say all kinds of stuff.”  He [Jordie] says, “Yeah, my dad’s trying to get money.”  As a matter of fact, I (unintelligible) for 45 minutes.  Then I tried tricking him.  I mean, I want you to know, I’m a vegetarian.  I picked this kid with a fine tooth comb.  So we’re there (unintelligible) with this kid… and If you sat down and talked to this kid, there wouldn’t be any doubt in your mind either.  And I said Michael is all upset.  We went over and over.  I tried to get him to sit down and he wants to play video games while I’m sitting there.  I’m sitting there with the kid’s mother [June Chandler] and David Schwartz walks in and (unintelligible) what’s this all about?  And [Barry] Rothman (unintelligible) asking questions.  There is no question that Rothman (unintelligible) what this is all about.” [11]

(Both Pellicano and Mitteager had a habit of secretly taping their conversations. This conversation was found amongst Mitteager’s tapes, which were handed over to Paul Barresi after Mitteager’s death. Barresi gave this tape to reporter, Aphrodite Jones, who published the transcript on her website.)

Jordan Chandler never repeated his allegations in a court and was never cross-examined about them. The interview he gave to Dr. Gardner contains remarkably similar trains of thought to that of Evan Chandler’s in the taped phone conversation he had with David Schwartz on July 8, 1993. For example, in that conversation Evan says:

“MR. CHANDLER: But it could have been used to advantage, and in some ways Michael is using his age and experience and his money and his power to great advantage to Jordy.“[8]


“MR. CHANDLER: It was the saddest thing I [tape irregularity]. I mean, how do you do that? 13 years old. There’s no — you know, and a [tape irregularity] just come into it? I ask you this: If Michael Jackson were just some 34-year-old person, would this be happening? No. He’s got power, he’s got money, he’s got seduction. [tape irregularity] happening [tape irregularity] they’ve been seduced away from the family by power and by money.” [8]


“MR. CHANDLER: He could be the same person without the power and the money, and they wouldn’t even be talking to him. You know it and I know it. So for power and money and his image, June and Jordy have broken up the family, and even though [tape irregularity] a lot better, because I’ve sat down and talked to him, and I’ve told him long before it came down to going this far –“ [8]

From the Dr. Gardner interview with Jordan:

“You still wanted to go on the tour?”

“Yes, at the time.”

“Why is that?”

“Because I was having fun. At the time, the things Michael was doing to me, they didn’t affect me. Like, I didn’t think anything was totally wrong with what he was doing since he was my friend, and he kept on telling me that he would never hurt me. But presently I see that he was obviously lying.”

“You’re saying you didn’t realize it could hurt you? Is that what you’re – – “

“I didn’t see anything wrong with it.”

“Do you see the wrong in it now?”

“Of course.”

“What is wrong as you see it?”

Because he’s a grown-up and he’s using his experience, of his age in manipulating and coercing younger people who don’t have as much experience as him, and don’t have the ability to say no to someone powerful like that. He’s using his power, his experience, his age – his overwhelmingness – to get what he wants.” [4]

When asked what, in his opinion, was wrong with what allegedly was done to him, Jordan was unable to relate to the alleged experience emotionally:

“When you say it could have hurt you, how could it have hurt you?”

“Everybody thinks what he was doing could hurt, otherwise it wouldn’t be a crime.”

“Okay, how could it hurt? As you see it, how could it hurt you?”

“Because – that’s a touchy subject, I guess. It separates you from any other people.”


“I don’t know.”

“Just your own guess.”

“It could make me depressed or something, I don’t know.”

“Well, this is important. You say it’s a crime. Why is it a crime?”

Because, like I said before, he’s using his experience, power, age – -

“How could this have left you? If this had gone on and not been interrupted, how could you have ended up?”

“According to his pattern, I believe he would have left me and, sort of dumped me, I guess you could call it. And I would be, sort of, a vegetable.” [4]

Jordan’s idea that what allegedly happened to him is wrong because it “separates you from any other people” is suspiciously similar to his father’s opinion, as related to us in his brother’s book, All That Glitters, which quotes Evan as saying:

“And it wasn’t just the sex part. Everyone made a big deal about the sex – the press, the cops, the DA. That was important, sure, but it wasn’t the main thing for me. It was what Michael did to him to get to that point. He took over his mind and isolated him from his family and friends and everyone he cared for. He made him his own little slave. On the outside it looked like he was showing Jordie the time of his life, but on the inside he was robbing him of his individuality, his soul. That was the real crime, and that’s what I wanted Michael to pay for.” [9; page 109]


“Even if there was no sex, Jordie’s personality had been seriously altered. As he morphed day by day into a pint-sized clone of Michael, he withdrew further and further from his family and friends.”[9; page 49]

Keep in mind in the same book, it is claimed that after Jordan “confessed” to his father on July 16 by answering with an almost inaudible “yes” to the question did Jackson touch his penis, they supposedly never talked about the allegations again [details here], yet Jordan’s train of thought, opinions, choice of words in this interview are remarkably similar to those of his father’s.

(It is also remarkable that Jordan talks about a “pattern”, when there was no pattern at all as there was no other accuser. However, literature by specialists on psychology/psychiatry and criminalistics often refer to patterns of criminals. Would a 13-year-old use such terms and have such concepts without adult coaching?)

Continuing with the Dr. Gardner interview, Jordan goes on to say a couple of questions later the best thing that happened to him in his life was when he told his father what Jackson had allegedly done to him, “because once I told him, I knew that Michael would never be able to do that to me again. And when something horrible ends, it’s most likely the best thing in your life” [4]. Take note that just a couple of sentences before Jordan’s concern was that Jackson would have “left him” and “dumped” him. He also wanted to go on tour with Jackson and said that the alleged molestation did not affect him.

In the interview Dr. Gardner asks Jordan if he ever had any homosexual attractions or feelings, but the boy firmly states he is only interested in girls and he does not seem to be confused about his sexuality. When asked by Dr. Gardner if he had a girlfriend, he is described as smiling and answers that he was “in the process of chasing after one” [4]. In All That Glitters it is even stated that Jordan at the time only cared about his girlfriend and that he seemed to be “the least affected” by the whole case. Ray Chandler quoted his brother, Evan telling his ex-wife, June:

“Jordie’s into his girlfriend. That’s all he cares about. I don’t even think about it day to day because it’s so speculative, you know, the news and their comments. I’m only interested in the facts and what actually happens. Quite frankly, I’m beginning to think that Jordie will be the least affected by all this. He seems very strong. He’ll be very scared if it goes to court, but that’s probably the main emotion he’ll feel.” [9; page 198-199]

Another part of the book talks about Jordan “running and laughing” and dating in October, 1993 – seemingly unaffected (and also unbothered by Michael Jackson fans or anyone), only a couple of months after his alleged molestation, while the investigation was still in full gear:

“By mid-October the Chandler’s could be reasonably assured of walking out of their front door without having a camera staring them in the face. Which meant that Jordie was able to play in the front yard or across the street at a friend’s house. To look at him, he seemed without a care, running and laughing like any other kid. But to those who knew him well, there was much inner conflict.

In Jordie’s small circle of friends there were boys and girls, but as of yet, la difference seemed to be of no interest to him. Then one day his friend’s eleven-year-old cousin came to play — a dark, slim beauty with big brown eyes. Jordie was smitten. And apparently the feeling was mutual. She returned the next day, and then the next, and soon they were spending much of their days together.

“He would do stuff,” Evan explained. “Like throw a stick to show her how macho he was. And then she’d remark how far he’d thrown it and act impressed. Sometimes they’d go off on their own, just a few houses away, and sit on the lawn and talk. The other kids would giggle and make fun of them. What a relief!”

“What do you think of her?” Evan asked his son, after watching the relationship blossom for several weeks. “I want to kiss her,” Jordie replied. But we might get in trouble with her mother. She’s too young.” And he was right. Not too young to kiss, perhaps, but too young to establish a more intimate bond — which I’m sure is what he had in mind.

Being the gentleman that he is, Jordie controlled his desires and learned an important lesson, for his patience was soon rewarded. A day or so later a new, older girl appeared on the block. “Hey, Pops,” Jordie exclaimed, “look at her, she’s beautiful!” And that she was. A sweet kid, too. They “dated” for over a year.” [9; page 188-189]

In the interview, Jordan claims he went along with the alleged sexual acts because he was overwhelmed by Jackson and he was under his spell. However, at another point in the interview he says he was not in awe of Jackson at all and that to him the star was “just like, a regular person” [4].

Dr. Gardner also asked Jordan if he had any fears. Perhaps not understanding that Dr. Gardner referred to the type of fear that is common in many children who suffered with sexual abuse, Jordan replied that he was only afraid of cross-examination.

“What about fears? Any fears of any kind?”


“Sometimes people, after experiences of this kind, develop different kinds of fears. You have no fears?”

“Maybe of cross-examination but that’s all. I mean I have nothing to hide, it’s just the thought of it.” [4]

In the interview Dr. Garnder also asks Jordan about his relationship with his mother, June Chandler. The pyschiatrist tries to find out if Jordan feels resentment toward her for “facilitating” the alleged abuse. Jordan, however, says he does not feel resentment toward her and says his mother was under Jackson’s spell just like he was. Dr. Gardner pressed him further on the issue:

“What about trust of your mother? Do you think any trust of your mother has been affected?”

 “Well, not because she, as people would say, she wanted to pimp me out. More because of maybe, I tried to tell her one time and she didn’t believe me.”

“When was that? Do you remember?”


“How do you feel about that?”

“I feel that if there’s any remote, itty-bitty thing in your mind that your kid may be getting hurt, you should put an army together, you know, if there’s a suspicion as strong as that, that my Dad had carried out this far. She should have at least listened to what I had to say.” [4]

(Keep in mind that Jordan was still under his father’s control when this interview was conducted.)

Besides the strangeness of Jordan saying that his main problem with his mother was NOT that she allegedly tried to “pimp him out” (“as people would say”), but that she would not listen to him, this is yet another contradiction in the Chandler story. Here Jordan claims he tried to tell his mother about the alleged abuse, but she did not listen. However, in Ray Chandler’s book, All That Glitters we read that Jordan was very secretive about the alleged abuse and despite of repeated questions by his father or others (like Jackson’s private investigator, Anthony Pellicano on July 9, 1993 – see earlier in this article) he would not disclose it. This conversation between the boy and his father took place at the end of May, 1993, according to the book:

“I’ll be there in a minute,” Evan said, and as Jordie turned to leave, he added, “Hey, Jordie, are you and Michael doin’ it?”

“That’s disgusting!” Jordie reacted. “I’m not into that.”

“Just kidding.”

Evan explained it this way. “It was crude, but I was so anxious, I decided on the spur of the moment to say it because I figured it would elicit an unplanned response.”

Jordie’s repulsion brought Evan great relief.” [9; page 46]

In our article entitled How Did The Allegations of the Chandlers Emerge?   you can read in detail about the Chandlers’ version of  how Jordan allegedly “confessed” about the abuse: his father basically threatened and blackmailed him into it, despite of Jordan denying any wrongdoing by Jackson initially. Even according to their own story it was not a voluntary disclosure by the boy or something he was eager to do – on the contrary.

As you can read in the above referenced article, according Ray Chandler’s book on August 6, 1993 – three weeks after his alleged “confession” to his father – Jordan was still unwilling to disclose his alleged abuse to his mother. In actuality, based on the same book, on August 10 June Chandler took out the boy to lunch and told him that if he would confirm Evan’s allegations against Jackson then she would help them punish him. Yet Jordan was still not willing to tell her that Jackson had allegedly molested him. The confirmation would finally come the next morning, according to the book, when Jordan called his mother and told her about his allegations on the phone – with Evan standing next to him. June then requested to talk to the boy alone, but Evan refused to let them. Before that the book portrays the boy as being firmly against telling it to his mother and it also claims that he did not want his father to tell it to her either. 

In the interview with Dr. Gardner Jordan’s answers often sound mechanical, rehearsed, emotionally detached and at times he uses expressions and concepts that sound very unusal from a 13-year-old.

Like mentioned earlier in this chapter, in Ray Chandler’s book Evan Chandler stated that he believed out of the whole family the allegations affected Jordan the least. The same book also recalls Jordan’s behaviour as he emerged from Dr. Mathis Abrams’ office on August 17, 1993, after he first told the story of his alleged sexual abuse.

Ten minutes after noon, Jordie finally emerged. “Hey, Dad, can we get something to eat?” His favorite question.

Evan was startled. He expected Jordie to come out heavy-hearted, but the boy seemed exuberated, almost whimsical. “Are you okay?” Evan asked, wrapping his arms around the boy.

“Yeah, Pops. Let’s go, I’m starved.” [9; page 121]


[1] Dimond Misleading the Public, Katz not first to hear allgations? Bullet #113

[2] Interview with Geraldine Hughes by Deborah L. Kunesh

[3] Declaration by Jordan Chandler on December 28, 1993 as leaked in February 2003

[4] Dr. Richard Gardner’s interview with Jordan Chandler as leaked in February 2003

[5] June Chandler’s testimony at Michael Jackson’s 2005 trial (April 11, 2005)

[6] Dr. Stanley Katz’s testimony at Michael Jackson’s 2005 trial (March 30, 2005)

[7] See for example:

- Learning From the McMartin Hoax (1989): http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume1/j1_2_7.htm

- Suggestive interviewing in the McMartin Preschool and Kelly Michaels daycare abuse cases: A case study (5 May, 2005): http://digitalcommons.utep.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=james_wood

[8] Taped phone conversation between Evan Chandler and David Schwartz (July 8, 1993)

[9] Raymond Chandler – All That Glitters: The Crime and the Cover-Up (Windsong Press Ltd, September 2004)

[10] Mary A. Fischer: Was Michael Jackson Framed? (GQ, October 1994)

[11] Taped phone conversation between Anthony Pellicano and Jim Mitteager (September, 1994)
It was originally posted on Aphrodite Jones’ website at http://www.aphroditejones.com/Michael_Jackson_Trial/Michael_Jackson_Trial.htm
The website has been since then reorganized and the Michael Jackson Trial section is not available anymore.

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